Coop Virtual Practice Proposal

[Josh McFadden]

I had an idea this afternoon to see what you guys in the cooperative thought about it. This website is such a valuable resource for the competitive angler. It's very unlikely that we would all be together for a coop practice of sorts. So my idea:

A Monthly Coop Virtual Practice whereby, we will as a group decide upon a fly selection for the month. Such as a Frenchie and a Baron and commit to fishing those two patterns in any size appropriate for your water for a 3 hr session before the 15th of that month. Each angler should record by photo each fish caught in that 3hr session and on which fly. Then we report back after the 15th and post our results on one official thread. There can be other restrictions such as coiled or straight sighter etc. It would be a great way to test new patterns as well. After we have compiled and discussed our sessions we can start thinking about the following month's session with regard to particular fly patterns. Perhaps one for July might be a hopper/dropper practice. Each angler head out to a stretch of water and start their session right before their fishing. We could also add restriction in as far as sticking with particular techniques. I think that the data we could compile doing this for several months would be very useful for all in knowing when and how flies are working in different parts of the country. It will no doubt give us some hard evidence of some new flies to have confidence in.


Any interest in something like this?

Any feedback or ideas for change?

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Josh McFadden  

[Dejon Hamann]

Absolutely love it! Count me in.

I really like the idea of limiting many factors including the flies, techniques, session length (maybe even 2 hours), and more. 

[Paul Bourcq]

I like it.  Each week one person could "host" it.  Say 1-2 hours, riffle water, czech nymphing.  Or 2 hours curly cue single mayfly ect.  This would be good stuff

[Mark Hanes]

I say this is a great idea.  Lets do this one and report back your results.  So who wants to set up the first one?  Josh its your idea so what do you want to do first.

[Josh McFadden]

Alright we'll give a couple weeks on this one since we're starting in the middle of the month.

-Report on or before June 27th
-Select 50 yrds of ~knee deep swift water 
-Fish 3 sec. French Roll on the Grid
-Coiled Sighter
-Patterns Frenchie (any size) and Micro Nymph -(#14 or smaller)

You should take a few scenic shots of your beat so that we can see your water
Take a photo of your two bugs in hand
After your rigged start your 2 hr session
Try to stay on the grid avoiding rushing to fishy spots. Fish where you are!
Photo Journal every fish caught during fishing to post here

[Dejon Hamann]

 I don't think there's 50yrds of knee deep swift trout water within 2 hours of my house!    I guess we'll all just try to find the closest proximity.

Just to clarify we're probably supposed to pick to patterns like a #12 Frenchie and #18Micro and just fish those patterns... but obviously take multiples in case we lose them.

I think most people know what a coiled sighter is.  Could you give us a description of a "3 sec. French Roll on the Grid"?  Some people might be scratching their heads and others might have something else in mind.

[Josh McFadden]

Yes definately take multiples it's not intended to be a two fly just pattern specific your not even restricted on size just pattern

Here's a good article discussing the french roll on the grid
http://www.examiner.com/x-29915-Connecticut-Fly-Fishing-Examiner~y2009m11d29-French-nymphing-increases-onstream-productivity

Essentially you'll be working your way out through your water working across stream casting your team of flies quartering across and giving them a 3 second count, then setting the hook regardless and recast. Then after you have worked over the water in front of you, you'll take a few steps downstream and continue this process, systematically working over the water. The idea is that your not only covering every inch of the water but also as you move downstream your covering some the same water again only at a different depth in the column. I have found with this technique there are many times fish that took the flies before the indicator had a chance to move and they spit the hooks. It gives you an opportunity to catch fish you otherwise would have missed. In my mind it's one of the most effective ways to cover water you don't know.

Any other thoughts?

[Chris Topmiller]

Alright we'll give a couple weeks on this one since we're starting in the middle of the month.

-Report on or before June 27th
-Select 50 yrds of ~knee deep swift water  
-Fish 3 sec. French Roll on the Grid
-Coiled Sighter
-Patterns Frenchie (any size) and Micro Nymph -(#14 or smaller)

You should take a few scenic shots of your beat so that we can see your water
Take a photo of your two bugs in hand
After your rigged start your 2 hr session
Try to stay on the grid avoiding rushing to fishy spots. Fish where you are!
Photo Journal every fish caught during fishing to post here

I'm game for this.  I know just the place.  

edit:  sorry, I just realized this was a club within the board here.  Can I audit and post my results for fun?  It might be useful to you guys. 

[Dejon Hamann]

Even though it has "coop" in the title this is for EVERYONE to join. Just like the board. Just like the coop. Just like any coop events, etc. 

[Chris Topmiller]

Ok, thanks.  I'm gonna try it this weekend and see how it goes.  I've been wanting to do something like this for a while anyway.

[Mark Hanes]

I think I thought of the perfect spot!  I am not sure how this approach will work there since it is pretty swift and holds some bigger trout.  I might have to go big with the frenchie.  No camera so it will be cell phone and hopefully I will pull of of the bigger fish that like this water. 

[Chris Topmiller]

So Josh. . .once we are done this weekend and ready to post, do we just post it here and keep this thread going, or do we start another thread for the month? 

[Josh McFadden]

I figured once it got going and if there was enough interest which there seems to be that Dejon might be able to make a special forum spot for it.
Josh

[Aaron Laing]

I might not get out this weekend, but I'm game. I've got a little creek that will do just nicely... no monsters though, just wee parr and resident cutthroat.

Aaron

[Chris Smorul]

I'll give it a try this Tuesday (my next day off).  I am curious, is there a reason that we will be working downstream as opposed to working upstream?

[Josh McFadden]

You can work up or downstream it's important for me to work downstream on a tailrace so that the fish see the flies before the line. When I line fish they don't eat.
You are more than welcome to fish either up or down the idea being to cover the water completely.
Josh

[Chris Smorul]

Cool. I've never employed this method, this should be interesting.  I have on occasion used short drifts while polish nymphing, similar but not exactly.

[Dejon Hamann]

it's important for me to work downstream on a tailrace so that the fish see the flies before the line.

Can you explain this a little further?  Are you actually fishing downstream as in facing down stream (casting downstream)?  I really never thought of doing that with the french method.  If so, what kind of success have you had with this approach?

[Josh McFadden]

When I'm fishing on the tailwaters I fish essentially "across and down" usually with stacked mends. However this approach doesn't give a whole lot of time for mends. I usually will try to position myself above and across from where fish are holding.
Alright, suppose that your stream is 20 foot across from the bank I want to fish the first 5 of feet of water next to where I'm standing before entering the water, Make a series of 3 second drifts in that area, then cast 7-10ft from the bank and so on working yourway across the water. After you have fished all the water infront of you you take a few stepts downstream and repeat the process. It is a very effective way of fishing covering a lot of ground.

Edit*Regardless of how i need to cast my bugs to get there,The numbers will represent where I want my bugs to be.  I'll work all the yellow across river, then take a step or two down river all the blue across river, then the same for the red with some over lap my flies will be as high up in the column as they begin to sink at 1, near the bottom on 2, and on the bottom on 3. These can either be lead or on the drift. Many times a fish will take on 2 or 3 where you woulnd't have seen the sighter move and your not too late at that point to set the hook.

forgive this sloppy schematic I hate microsoft paint but it's all I've got to work with.


I am talking pretty slow counts *a thousand 1, a thousand 2, a thousand 3 set* I have not been at as long as many of you but I have already taken fish the last couple of weeks that I wouldn't have caught otherwise in faster current.

I believe you'll be pleasantly suprised if you try it.

Josh

[Josh McFadden]

it's important for me to work downstream on a tailrace so that the fish see the flies before the line.

Can you explain this a little further?  Are you actually fishing downstream as in facing down stream (casting downstream)?  I really never thought of doing that with the french method.  If so, what kind of success have you had with this approach?

I'm not actually casting downstream, 98% of the time I always cast across stream drifting my flies downstream and then moving down stream as I go. I am wanting the fish to see my flies before seeing any line or leader up above them. Very good success this way so far just in the last few weeks. I've even had clients try it with success, because many of them
don't have the mending skill set to make long drifts anyways.

If it's too confusing we'll stick with type of water, bugs and sighter and not employ technique this time around. It is important to see that patterns will work under different techniques anyhow. That's up to you guys.

[Josh McFadden]

Last week on the 3rd I got out for a little while in the afternoon. I was employing this technique. This is also very effective way to fish runs that are just plain fishy when you're at one of those spots where a fish would be stupid to not be at. Fish will be sitting in a run and eat and spit a fly before the indicator moves. Well I cast into a run where there should have been a fish to eat. I cast 2 flies 6ft under a curly. On the 3rd cast same as the other two I set the hook on 3 just as I did the other two casts but this time a fish was on.

It's exciting to think that any other time I would have not had concentrated on one area with intesity. In 9 seconds that fish saw the fly 3 times and the third time he ate it. Any other time I would have made stack mends to drift those flies 40 foot downstream giving each fish only 1 chance to eat it in say 30 seconds. It's hard to not be geeked out about it because it works so well. I hope you'll find similar results with your practice this month. Report back with all the information and pictures you can.
Josh

[Dejon Hamann]

J,

I think we should definitely stick to one technique. And try to refine it as much as possible.  Without that constraint the practice isn't half as effective. 

You picked a nice tough one right off the bat which is extremely cool!  I was just trying to narrow down what your interpretation of "french nymphing" is so we could all head out and practice something similar.  The definition of French Nymphing I've come to understand over the years is a tactic employed directly upstream of the angler and thus requires some aggressive wading (the angler also works upstream).  Everything else you've described ala grid casting, light flies, and 2/3 second sets applies.  The variation you've described seems like a big modification as I was led to believe that the orientation of the angler below the trout's line of vision and the ascension of the team of flies quickly through the water column (specifically downriver and not at any angle) mimicking emerging insects were key to this technique.

Your variation almost seems like a "french wet fly technique" and as such I was almost thinking wet flies might be more appropriate.

Again, not trying to challenge you in any way. Just trying to level the playing field for the practice. I think one downfall is there are several inconsistencies and errors in the article you listed, but it's not really a big deal and a good jumping off reference.

We should probably pick one "direction" to go in though. As working up or down stream really changes the nature of the presentation.

[Mark Hanes]

Where i am thinking of fishing would lend itself to a upstream approach But I could try either way.

[Mark Hanes]

So this is an across and down stream approach?  I think I got I don't think it is true French nymphing it seems to boe modified but i like it.  It would be a great way to move fast and cover an entire beat quickly.

[Chris Topmiller]

Edit*Regardless of how i need to cast my bugs to get there,The numbers will represent where I want my bugs to be.  I'll work all the yellow across river, then take a step or two down river all the blue across river, then the same for the red with some over lap my flies will be as high up in the column as they begin to sink at 1, near the bottom on 2, and on the bottom on 3. These can either be lead or on the drift. Many times a fish will take on 2 or 3 where you woulnd't have seen the sighter move and your not too late at that point to set the hook.

Josh

Ok, if I understand correctly, I'm casting across and upstream, and I'm wading downstream.   I don't quite understand how I can lead the flies if they are downstream of me.   

Regardless, I'm looking forward to this tomorrow.  I plan to be out there early to claim my spot.  Great idea for a project.