Author Topic: Losing copper johns (Read 1580 times)

Josh Almond · « **on:** December 29, 2009, 09:53:37 PM »

I know for me not being able to fish copper johns in fips mouche style tournaments took away a major producer in my box. The combination of a quick sinking body, great segmentation, imitative mayfly style body and a massive range of colors just makes for a great fly that catches a lot of fish. I have experimented with different D ribs, vinyl ribs, nymph strech cord etc...nothing gave me the results I was looking for.

Until today when I was working on my tipping wraps of the new 8wt i'm building. Here I am using a metallic rod building thread when it hits me. I cut the wrap off take about 6 inches of the metallic thread off the spool and go to the vise. When the thread is twisted it creates a nice segmented look with the flash I loved in the ultra wire. I will try to get some pics up soon but figured I would send out the idea to those who hated losing their copper johns

Chris Smorul · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2009, 09:56:10 PM »

Necessity is the mother of invention! Can't wait to see them.

Nick Naclerio · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2009, 09:58:23 PM »

Another option for you Josh could be that DMC makes embroidery floss in a metallic copper color. I mean this stuff is the same color as ultra wire. That might work for you. Actually it would probally make a more durable fly, you could even give it a coat of hard as nails for shine and some real durabilty.

Mark Hanes · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:01:11 PM »

Good stuff Josh!! I am looking forward to your new flies.

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #4 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:25:31 PM »

Josh, I used to be a big copper john fan before competition and went looking for substitutes. I ended up relying on turkey biot wrapped with ultra wire to mimic the segmentation. I obviously used some lead underneath and tungsten beads. I tied up a whole box and was happy with their "copper john-esque" qualities and production. However, as I tackled more and more competitions the box began to be left behind. More natural looking "bugs" with earthy and shiny yet subdued synthetic hues began to take over. IMO, copper johns and the philosophy associated with it of tying many variations in vibrant colors is incredibly effective... but not over super pressured fish as you find in competition. Just my experience though.

Here's the dusty box of fantastic fish catching flies:

Nick Naclerio · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:33:26 PM »

Those look good Dejon. How did the blue ones work out for you?

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:40:48 PM »

They always caught fish. The blue was nice off the bench - pulling a fish when nothing else would. I got a nice 15" Brown on BigFishingCreek on a 12.

Mark Hanes · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:45:48 PM »

Big fishing Creek. Humm that is one really dusty box then??

Nick Naclerio · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2009, 10:50:34 PM »

I have some sweet blue dubbings I never use, maybe I make some blue nymphs and give em a go.

Chris Smith · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2009, 11:21:08 PM »

I've heard rumors as to why wire bodied flies aren't permitted...magnetic fields and the like. Can anyone clarify the reasoning?

Todd Oishi · « **Reply #10 on:** December 30, 2009, 12:58:41 PM »

Quote from: Chris Smith on December 29, 2009, 11:21:08 PM

I've heard rumors as to why wire bodied flies aren't permitted...magnetic fields and the like. Can anyone clarify the reasoning?

Chris Smith · « **Reply #11 on:** December 30, 2009, 04:01:14 PM »

Thanks Todd.

The use of wire bodies beneath dressing (which appears to be allowed based upon the rules), but non-use without proper dessing, has always made me wonder if there was something more to it. Perhaps it's simply an asthetics/purity of the sport issue?

Mine is not to question why, mine is but to do or die.

Paul Bourcq · « **Reply #12 on:** December 30, 2009, 06:35:44 PM »

Josh I have been using some stuff a friend gave me called crystal string. Its nylon ribbing that they use in jewlery making. It comes in flat ala stonefly segments and round ala cased caddis/copper johnish. Of course it doesnt add weight but it comes in every color of the rainbow. I wrap them as a body, then wrap some wire between the ribs, nice buggy touch dubbed thorax, tungsten bead and bingo, an easy money comp fly that works great. Blue and Yellow have been good colors for me lately.

Chris (smith).........magnetism? I think I know where you are going with that but not sure. I wonder if there has been any studies on that. Surely a fish would be receptive to something like that.

Jason Baker · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2009, 12:59:23 PM »

Quote from: Chris Smith on December 29, 2009, 11:21:08 PM

I've heard rumors as to why wire bodied flies aren't permitted...magnetic fields and the like. Can anyone clarify the reasoning?

Searched for a while and didn't find any info on magnetism and alike....

I think it's just more of a principle that a fly should be made of mainly feathers and fur?

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #14 on:** December 31, 2009, 01:13:48 PM »

Are you guys using sarcasm? I can't tell.

Seriously though. As described to me by many long time competitors the rule was made to stop people from just painting (or not) "flies" like weighted jig hooks and such. It primarily exists to stop the "exposed weight" issue. Of course, the body of a copper john hardly amounts to more weight than the same fly with a biot body, BUT the fly had to be banned as not to allow that type of construction.

Chris Smith · « **Reply #15 on:** December 31, 2009, 06:06:08 PM »

As ridiculous as it sounds, I've heard people say the coils of wire on a copper john can produce electromagnetic fields.

I'm not a scientist and have always taken it as just an old fisherman's tale. I'm sure that's probably what it is...(insert twilight zone sound effect here).

Dejon Hamann · « **Reply #16 on:** January 01, 2010, 01:31:11 PM »

I'm sure it's not out of the question. Come to think of it, I wonder if I should be tying flies with magnetic under bodies

Seriously though

Kevin Compton · « **Reply #17 on:** January 02, 2010, 02:29:36 PM »

If the copper wire is wrapped tightly as 'underbody' weight and then is over-wrapped with stretched clear vinyl tubing (such as Stalcup's Micro Tubing) is that a sufficient dressing? I'm not looking for loop-holes; I have seen this technique used with grayling nymphs overseas. There the aim is, I believe, to form flashy yet translucent & segmented bodies, not to skirt FIPS Mouche rules. I have also seen nymph bodies with tapered thread or lead underbodies over-wrapped with copper/gold, opal, or holographic tinsels and then covered with clear vinyl tubing to add segmentation & durability.

Brandon Alexander · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2010, 01:17:58 PM »

Different metals put of different electrical fields. A current gage might show it. Edson battery with copper and salt water?? . As far as attracting fish??? We know fish like salty stuff like earthworms and the like which put off ions into the water from ingesting different metals ect ect in the dirt that attract fish so I don't think it's far fetched. It seems like fish can always find a worm. Streams have lots of minerals and salts dissolved in them which would react with metal. 9th grade Earth Science right

Kev,Try putting the wire inside the tubing. Creates a nice look and helps crank em' out.